[sup]

I have two unrelated ideas that would make Elevate in my eyes even better:

1) One would be displaying the difficulty of via ferratas, ie. this key: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:via_ferrata_scale
(for example mapy.cz does that as attached and it can be quite useful, I think, in addition to SAC-scale).

2) The other would be an option to make railroads visible when zoomed out. For me, not having a car, seeing where railroads are (and this a potential way to get back home after hiking somewhere) is quite important when planning a trip.

Unfortunatelly, OSM does not seem to distinguish between rails with regular traffic and functional rails but without regular passanger traffic, but even then it would be quite useful I think. Of course, as an option only.

Thanks for considering there :-).

[Tobias]

via_ferrata_scale is not contained in the maps, see here:
https://www.openandromaps.org/en/map-basics-2/tag-mapping
So it would have to be added first, then some additional rendering has to be found in an already pretty complex mapstyle for hiking paths.
But I think it won’t be added anyway, as using just an OSM map for planning via ferratas is not such a good idea.

railways are already marked pretty well if you use the city mapstyle and use the option public transport option.

Developer of Elevate mapstyle

[sup]

Well, I would say it is up to the user to decide how they plan things. However, I think OSM (and elevate) is used for more than just planning. One might want to use it to see what is out there, in which case the additional information is useful. More crucially, for various reasons one might need to change their plans, in which case especially if there is no signal, the information about via ferrata difficulty can become vital as it might determine if the given escape route is feasible or not. If it is a lot of work, I understand it would not be implemented and I understand that the theme is already complex (it should probably be an option), but I think „people should not use OSM to plan via ferrata trips“ is a bad reason not to implement this.

As for railroads, aha, I was not functionally aware of the city option, thanks! However, even there railroads stop being showed earlier than roads. I would assume they would be showed at the same level of zoom as roads – so railroads tagged as main at the same time as motorways, and branches at the same time as highways (non-dual carriage way – not sure about the OSM tags for car-roads, just guessing based on what I see on my phone). And personally I would love the public transport overlay to be available also for hiking (I only use that mapstyle) but I guess that is just my personal quirk.

[Tobias]

Sorry, but there are already so many cases where people think they can use a via ferrata easily and are stuck, so I think that argument is pretty valid. We just include via ferrata to warn about it. As an escape use case without via ferrata set and helmet? Pretty interesting use case, stacking risk on risk 😉

Also paths in the maps have already too much information, because of the 15 tag limit in Mapsforge on a map item we don’t add tags for them anymore.

Railways are shown in the public transport as soon as they are contained in the map: https://www.openandromaps.org/map-basics-2/tag-mapping

The public transport overlay won’t be added to hiking, that’s what different mapstyles are for. They all have too many options already, and there are users which just activate every option – which doesn’t make sense, but I have to keep that in mind.

Developer of Elevate mapstyle

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ChristianK

[ChristianK]

In short:

Via ferratas have to be planed using special Guidebooks and Route-Topos.
There are too much desasters happening in the Alps by people using not suitable planing-tools for climbing/fixed rope routes

OSM ist such a non suitable datapool/tool.
There are nunmerous wrong taggings and mapping in OSM-Data – no one could trust on this information when going on dangerous ground.

So no detailed climbing or ferrata information in OAM.
I would never ever trust OSM for serious mountainering.

Sorry

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Tobias, JohnPercy

[sup]

I mostly meant including the scale when used with https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal:Safety_measures_on_hiking_trails and highway=path. However, if 15 is a limit, that is a good reason not to include it I guess.

Personally, I would typically not use a set on A and usually also on B (and I would trust myself not to fall from C too, but why take the risks) and these are commonly used without sets and helmets.

OSM is not used just for planning – sometimes without internet, it is the only thing you will have. And sometimes you need to change your plans. And I think that more information is better than less. Some people (like myself) tend to expect the better possibility when something is unknown. So a high difficulty on the map would turn me back but no difficulty would not turn me back necessarily. So I do not think that this safety consideration goes only one way.

But it does not matter, I can see it will not be added and I can live with that for sure:-).

As for public transport highlighting, I include screenshots from Locus maps. Highways are shown much longer than main railroads when zoomed out. But that is a functino of the maps, not the theme, if I undersand you correctly?

[Tobias]

sup wrote:

But that is a functino of the maps, not the theme, if I undersand you correctly?

It can be limited in the theme, but only within the constrains of the map. For every tag there’s a minimal zoom when it’s contained in the map, which can’t be overridden by theme.

Developer of Elevate mapstyle

[Autor]

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